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Randomly testing outlets in the house with a plug in-circuit tester and I ran into a circuit that is showing up as an open neutral. The outlet is on a switch for both plugs. When the switch is in the on position the circuit tester indicates normal and ok, but when the switch is in the off position the circuit tester indicates I have an open neutral. I'm assuming this is not normal and how do I start to troubleshoot this, and what would cause this.
Thanks,
Mike
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09-07-2020, 09:11 AM
(This post was last modified: 09-07-2020, 09:30 AM by Willyou.)
I'm not an electrician. So, I could be wrong. I assume this is a typical 3 wire home 115v circuit with black, white and bare ground. I think that the tester showing that you have an open neutral indicates that the wrong wire is switched. Check the connections at the switch. The black wire should be connected to the switch and the white wire should pass through and the bare wire should also pass through.
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(09-07-2020, 08:44 AM)CanoeBoy Wrote: The outlet is on a switch for both plugs.
(09-07-2020, 09:11 AM)Willyou Wrote: I think that the tester showing that you have an open neutral indicates that the wrong wire is switched.
Sounds like it to me, too.
It's more complicated in that if it's a switch leg with no power to the switch box, the white was supposed to be the always hot to the switch, and the black is supposed to be switched. It's easy to mess that up. Which seems to be the case.
Open the receptacle and see what the wire to the switch is connected to, and which side of the receptacle the other (switched) conductor is terminating.
Shut the power off at the breaker and test to verify it's dead before poking around in there.
Tom
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(09-07-2020, 10:07 AM)TDKPE Wrote: Sounds like it to me, too.
It's more complicated in that if it's a switch leg with no power to the switch box, the white was supposed to be the always hot to the switch, and the black is supposed to be switched. It's easy to mess that up. Which seems to be the case.
Open the receptacle and see what the wire to the switch is connected to, and which side of the receptacle the other (switched) conductor is terminating.
Shut the power off at the breaker and test to verify it's dead before poking around in there. +3 on switched neutral
If you have a no contact voltage tester see if the switch wires are both hot when the switch is in the on position, if not the neutral is being switched. If there is a load on the outlet only one wire will be hot with the switch off if the neutral is being switched. ( remember in this case the circuit is still hot to ground with the switch off) Roly
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(09-07-2020, 10:17 AM)Roly Wrote: +3 on switched neutral
If you have a no contact voltage tester see if the switch wires are both hot when the switch is in the on position, if not the neutral is being switched. If there is a load on the outlet only one wire will be hot with the switch off if the neutral is being switched. ( remember in this case the circuit is still hot to ground with the switch off) Roly
The switch does not have feed power to it. I'll check it out with the no contact tester.
Thanks for the help guys.
Mike
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Here is what I found. With the switch in the ON position and power to the outlet I have no hot wires to the switch, and with the switch in the OFF position and no power to the outlet I have one hot wire at the switch. Is it as simple as reversing the 2 wires as the switch?
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(09-07-2020, 11:30 AM)CanoeBoy Wrote: Here is what I found. With the switch in the ON position and power to the outlet I have no hot wires to the switch, and with the switch in the OFF position and no power to the outlet I have one hot wire at the switch. Is it as simple as reversing the 2 wires as the switch?
If you unplug the load from that receptacle, they both will be dead. If the neutral is switched. Which it certainly appears to be.
You have to open the receptacle and swap the connections in there, not at the switch.
Tom
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(09-07-2020, 11:33 AM)TDKPE Wrote: If you unplug the load from that receptacle, they both will be dead. If the neutral is switched. Which it certainly appears to be.
You have to open the receptacle and swap the connections in there, not at the switch.
After thinking about it that's what I thought.
Thanks,
Mike
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09-07-2020, 02:07 PM
(This post was last modified: 09-07-2020, 02:08 PM by Willyou.)
(09-07-2020, 11:33 AM)TDKPE Wrote: If you unplug the load from that receptacle, they both will be dead. If the neutral is switched. Which it certainly appears to be.
You have to open the receptacle and swap the connections in there, not at the switch. The way I understand this, if it helps, is that your receptacle box will have a black, white, and bare ground coming into it from the panel. The white (neutral) and bare ground should be connected to the receptacle. The hot black will be connected with a wire nut to either a white or black (not sure which is correct) that goes to the switch and returns from the switch as the opposite color (white should be marked red or black if I understand correctly) that is in turn connected to the other side of the receptacle. If it is the white neutral wire that is connected the the wire nut then it is the black and white wires coming in from the panel that need to have their positions swapped; white one on the receptacle and black one in the wire nut.
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All fixed, thanks for the help guys. I had to back even further in the circiut and hook things up properly. Sad thing is that the previuos owner was an electrician, and I just assume that things were done right from the start. Not exactly how old school this guy was or to the extent of a professional he was. Then again I did find some major no no's that a guy that worked as a lineman for the power company did in the electrical panel. I found 2 circuits that were added to breakers that already had wires hooked up to. The more I look at stuff I'm about ready to call an electrician and have them look at everything.
Thanks again for the help.
Mike
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